I regret not getting to read this in class.

[fantastic_jackie]

I finished Pride & Prejudice. :) I have a few questions about it since I didn't read it in any class and have no benifit of class discussion or asking the teacher afterwards, so if you've read it, would you take a moment to help me out?

1. The episode regarding Wickham and Lydia somewhat confused me. I think I've got it - that running away together and not being married was considered very bad, right? The crying and all seemed over the top to me, though. Not that I'm criticizing - just that I'm quite sure that I don't understand entirely.

2. In regards to Mr. Wickham's militia regiment, and a few other places as well as his new General in the Regulars, what was the point of calling it ----------shire? She didn't name it, I understand that, but why? Everything else was named, including Mr. Darcy's fictional Pemberly estate, so what was the purpose of excluding those of fictional names? Was that a common practice back then or just something Austen did?

3. The definition of many words was different back then, but condescension struck me as being the most out there. Mostly used in reference to Lady Catherine by Mr. Collins, he spoke of her condescension as an admirable trait. If I'm reading it correctly, it was meant as a sort of reverse humbling by the upper class, correct? That she would "humble" herself to interact with those of the lower class, though without any meaning of the word humble.

Also, diverted; I didn't get that one at all.

From Chapter 15 of Volume the Third - 
The reading of Mr. Collins' letter by Mr. Bennet about Elizabeth & Mr. Darcy being soon engaged:

Elizabeth tried to join in her father's pleasantry, but could only force one most reluctant smile. Never had his wit been directed in a manner so little agreeable to her.

"Are you not diverted?"

"Oh, yes. Pray, read on."

And this last question is pretty much open discussion because I'm just curious, and I know everyone knows about dowries.

4. What was the purpose in starting such a tradition? It was to "reimburse" the new husband for taking care of the daughter, I know. But such a tradition no longer exists today, and while you might say that it's because women can now work (not to mention the feminists, large and small -ie, would include me- would be offended by it), I thought it was more tied to honor than anything. Again, chivalry doesn't much exist today aside from opening doors.

I suppose I'm wondering everyone's thoughts on it; there were times in the book that I was reading that I felt somewhat affronted that there was expected compensation for marriage. Other times, it seemed perfectly natural.

I don't suppose it makes a difference since it's irrelevant and in the past. I'm just weird like that; I love history. ^_^

Comments

[mrstater.livejournal.com]

Oh goodie! I get to put my English major to use!

1. The episode regarding Wickham and Lydia somewhat confused me. I think I've got it - that running away together and not being married was considered very bad, right? The crying and all seemed over the top to me, though. Not that I'm criticizing - just that I'm quite sure that I don't understand entirely.

The crying is supposed to be over the top because the whole thing with the Bennetts is that they're an emotionally un-checked family. Their weepyness is there for comedic effect: though also for irony, because something awful has really happened, but if they'd only held themselves with more decorum and control to begin with, Lydia wouldn't have gotten into that situation. To have a daughter do what Lydia did would have put the family in disgrace, though. Lydia wasn't even old enough to be "out".

2. In regards to Mr. Wickham's militia regiment, and a few other places as well as his new General in the Regulars, what was the point of calling it ----------shire? She didn't name it, I understand that, but why? Everything else was named, including Mr. Darcy's fictional Pemberly estate, so what was the purpose of excluding those of fictional names? Was that a common practice back then or just something Austen did?

I've seen it in lots of novels from that period. I think it's meant to make it more generic.

3. The definition of many words was different back then, but condescension struck me as being the most out there. Mostly used in reference to Lady Catherine by Mr. Collins, he spoke of her condescension as an admirable trait. If I'm reading it correctly, it was meant as a sort of reverse humbling by the upper class, correct? That she would "humble" herself to interact with those of the lower class, though without any meaning of the word humble.

Jane Austen's playing with the idea of condescension. There is the older use of it as in God condescended to take on a mortal body and live among men. So Mr. Collins is using it in that sense, literally that Lady Catherine's descended from on high to speak with a person of no rank. But it's also ironic here because he's oblivious to her condescension, in the treating him like a nobody sense.

Also, diverted; I didn't get that one at all.

Amusing, entertaining.

Not sure so much about dowries. You ought to check Wikipedia.

[patriot-jackie.livejournal.com]

Thankies for answering my questions! ^_^

Ha! Don't you put it to use every time your pen touches paper? =P But you certainly sound like the English teachers I always admired for "having all the answers." ^_~

The crying is supposed to be over the top because the whole thing with the Bennetts is that they're an emotionally un-checked family. Their weepyness is there for comedic effect: though also for irony, because something awful has really happened, but if they'd only held themselves with more decorum and control to begin with, Lydia wouldn't have gotten into that situation. To have a daughter do what Lydia did would have put the family in disgrace, though. Lydia wasn't even old enough to be "out".

Ahh... I see. When I watched the movie a couple months ago, I somewhat discussed this with my roomie who had just finished her study of the book the previous semester, but she was very vague and disjointed in her explanations.

I wonder, because I recall reading somewhere that Pride & Prejudice was supposed to be a partial parody of those times, (is that right?), if people actually laughed or, if that was "too improper," smiled when reading it.

Jane Austen's playing with the idea of condescension. There is the older use of it as in God condescended to take on a mortal body and live among men. So Mr. Collins is using it in that sense, literally that Lady Catherine's descended from on high to speak with a person of no rank. But it's also ironic here because he's oblivious to her condescension, in the treating him like a nobody sense.

Woot! An irony I didn't miss! ^_^ Thanks for the background info! :)

Amusing, entertaining.

I meant more how today's meaning tied in with then's, but that's okay since I was completely vague. :)

You ought to check Wikipedia.

As a frequenter of political forums in which Wikipedia is a useless tool to be scoffed at, I can't say that I'd hold too much stock in anything I read there. Anything and everything from that site, I read with a grain teaspoon of salt. ^^;;

But I shall research! Maybe I'll post my findings here later. ;)

Thankies again for answering my questions! ^_^ They're very helpful!