The Ultimate Healthcare Post
Mar. 24th, 2010 01:19 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
fantastic_jackieWith my head buried in Washington for the past week, I imagine y’all think I’ve been oddly silent. The passage of the health care bill being lauded as on par with the founding of the nation and the civil rights movement by the left and decried as the equivalent of Pearl Harbor and the financial disasters that are Medicare, Medicaid, and SS by the right would surely inspire more than a post regarding procedure from me, wouldn’t it?
Cha’ it would. And here it is – all packed into one. I’ll debate any aspect of this post with anyone, but the purpose of the post is to as objectively as possible explain what’s in the bill. However, I can’t guarantee objectivity because I do have an agenda, and also, I admittedly am only going to include the negative things. … Not that I can think of anything positive about this bill, though. Really. It sucks hardcore. If you’ve been paying attention to the debate, then you should probably know a lot of this.
Note: I'm not an economist, so I can't begin to explain to you how the numbers are calculated. I do know, however, that they can be found in multiple sources, and that has to do for me.
My sources for this information are all internet based:
Various News Articles – Yahoo, AP, Reuters, NYT, Fox, Washington Post. Maybe more.
The Bill, - Really Long PDF File That Kills Your Compy!
Newsmax - Obamacare Grants IRS Perilous New Powers, GOP Says
KeithHennessey.com - Understanding the new health reconciliation bill
The New England Journal of Medicine - The Medicus Firm Survey
Hannity Forum Posters - A list of particulars: What’s wrong with the HC bill
Huffington Post – Fact Sheet: The Truth About the Health Care Bill
Not everything by a long shot, but a goodly number of them.
Yeah. I’m citing Huffpo as a legitimate source. Seriously. I figured it would gain some credibility with those of you left of center. I already knew 90% of the stuff in the article, but it is a very nice bullet point rundown. By a staunch libbie.
THE NATIONAL COSTS
There are a fair few budgetary tricks in this bill that I only understand so long as I’m reading about them. However, the biggest two are:
1) We will pay taxes for 10 years in order to receive 6 years of benefits. This is how the bill was scored “deficit neutral.” Do you think we’re going to give up the benefits every 6 years for a 4 year recess in order to continue that trend?
2) The bill that was passed DOES NOT include the $300ish Billion “Doctor Fix” which prevents the 20% cut in Medicare payments to doctors. Interesting foreshadow for the future: the reason the Fix is needed is because of a law that was passed earlier with the intention of controlling costs. That is, this was a promise from an earlier Congress to control the costs of the program – the later, now current Congress, under pressure, is considering breaking that promise.
THE IRS – NEW & IMPROVED ON STEROIDS
Yeah… Not a very objective subtitle. But! Check out their shiny new powers!
16,500 new IRS agents will be hired in order to enforce the new health care bill. The IRS will, along with being responsible for collecting your taxes, be the enforcer of a social entitlement program. It will be the job of the IRS to ensure that you have the required insurance coverage mandated by the federal government.
If you don’t have the insurance, or the proper level of insurance, then tough noodles. Community Chest: Pay Uncle Sam $2,250 or 2.5% of your yearly income – whichever is greater.
Oh, and here’s the best part about the tax: almost half of the individual mandate taxes (see: punitive penalty) will come from families below the 300% poverty level. That’s a family of 4 making $66,000 or so.
THE COST IN $$$ TO YOU
...I was gonna write this out, but the Huffpo article did it so succinctly. I'm just gonna quote.
And actually, there's more to Myth #7. The thing is that there are many people who have insurance right now whose coverage will not meet the minimum standards. This means, generally speaking, they're going to have to get new coverage and pay more for it.
THE COST IN $$$ TO EMPLOYERS
Phew. The employers in this? They get seriously screwed - particularly if they're a Mom & Pop shop. Now I'd heard this many times, from pundits, congress critters, analysts, and reporters, but it wasn't until a poster at a forum I hang out at explained it that I was able to understand it.
This is regarding the 8% penalty that employers have to pay for individuals who choose not to enroll in the company's insurance benefits or are part time employees. What 8% penalty, you ask? Well, the bill calls it a contribution...
Read it carefully. It is saying what you think it's saying. I didn't believe it, either.
Here's an EXAMPLE of a Mom & Pop Shop as opposed to a Walmart.
Granted, his numbers are rosy and simplistic, but the calculation is what's important to pay attention to. Yes, he's also just some random dude on the internet, except that he's been there for a while and so have I: he's acknowledged by both sides to be an accurate, reliable, numbers crunching kind of guy. Though he does have his partisan moments as we all do. ;)
Of course this doesn't include the 40% excise tax on so-called Cadillac plans not obtained through union contracts. Let alone the costs of employers now being required to cough all this money up and the effect it will have on employment in this Great Recession.
EFFECT ON DOCTORS
For the sake of time and length, I'm only going to refer to one poll and a situation in Washington state.
Published in the New England Journal of Medicine, a survey by the Medicus Firm found that of about 1,200 physician respondents, 30% of them would try to retire early or would retire early. Now granted, this is a poll, and it's all just talk until they actually do something. I doubt a full third of our doctors would leave the field - or at least not immediately. The important question to ask is why 1/3 of the doctors responded that way. When you shove so many millions of people into the system suddenly, what happens to that system without a proportional amount of doctors entering at the same time? Can quality and access remain the same, unchanged? Will the price of things remain unchanged?
In Washington state, Wallgreens has announced that after, I believe it's April 16, they will not take anymore new Medicaid patients. It represents too much of a loss for them to continue accepting new people. Several doctors around the country have echoed the same reality.
THE STUPAK DEAL
Funny thing about executive orders: they cannot trump law. The health care bill that Obama signed yesterday is LAW. Congress is the legislative branch of the government while the President is the executive. The legislative branch, and the legislative branch alone is charged with creating the laws.
So. If the President's executive order is, by Congressional fiat or whatever - maybe imagination; I don't know - If his executive order is deemed to trump true law, then why do we need Congress?
We'd have a dictator who could legislate with impunity.
How, exactly, did the President convince Stupak that he could do such a thing?
LIBERTIES LOST
I suppose I could break this bill down a million different ways - and I didn't even touch the education portion of it. I didn't even touch half of it. - I think the two most important individual liberties lost are those of choice and property.
Only big government liberals would march into your home, tell you they know best, and demand you purchase a product "for your health" with the legalized threat that they will confiscate thousands of your hard earned dollars/send you to jail if you don't. Only big government, socialist, redistribute-the-wealth liberals would call that liberty.
Nancy Pelosi had the unmitigated gall to mention the Founding Fathers in this. She couldn't even quote the Declaration of Independence! Gee, Madame Speaker. When was the last time you touched anything written by our founders, let alone READ anything they wrote?! Somehow I have a hard time believing Madison, Jefferson, Washington, Adams, Franklin, or Paine would celebrate imposing upon the American people punitive taxation for not purchasing a particular prized product.
Somehow, I think they would be mightily offended by the arrogance of the democratic party to partisan-ly equate itself with GOD to create rights! That is HIS authority, and HIS only!
Equivalent to the Civil Rights Movement of the 60's?! Those people refused to move to the back of the bus! They refused to leave the counter! They marched! They relied on GOD and each other, not government! They were fighting AGAINST the government, which was keeping them oppressed for majority opinion! They were beaten and hosed and KILLED in that movement! You're going to compare the most corrupt, leftist piece of legislation that has ever been partisan-ly passed in our country's history to the men and women of color who stood up in defiance to the majority and THE GOVERNMENT? How DARE you?! Is their fight and sacrifice so trivialized that you would dance on their tombstones?
It is sickening and disgusting that this administration has spit in the face of the American people. "Sit down and shut the #($)# up! We're doing whatever the ^#$&! we feel like, and there ain't nothin' you can do about it!"
Well dems, there is something we can do about it. There's a magical month known as November, and it's coming in 7 1/2 short months. We are coming to the polls in droves, and we are going to kick your arrogant butts to curb. "GET OUT."
Congress' approval rating on Monday was 11%. ELEVEN PERCENT! And they want to shove that steaming crap in our face and tell us, "It was for you!" Bogus! It was for government! The almighty government that we should, by their estimation, bow down and efface ourselves before.
Screw. That.
Unless Obama really is a dictator as I previously explained, we still have the RIGHT to VOTE. And vote we shall! If we allow liberty to die on our watch to the thunderous, arrogant applause one party, how will we ever face the next generations? How will America be the home of the FREE and the BRAVE? Where will people go when America no longer has the prized health care system of the world? - And don't you dare tell me that it's not. If it wasn't, people wouldn't come from across the globe to get treatment and specialized procedures! It wouldn't happen!
The question before us is thus: Are we Americans or are we Europeans?
Close allies as we are, there were very specific reasons America revolted against the British. We are still the most free and prosperous country in the world, and we believe that government has a LIMITED role.
So the President might want me and those like me to sit down and shut up, but I'm not going to. I've been missing on LJ because I'm looking for new ways to ACT. The Tea Parties are great for expression, but the government doesn't give a flip what the people think.
I am going to be involved, and I encourage you to be involved with me as much as you can. This is a war for the heart and soul of what liberty is in the United States of America! We cannot lose this war! We WILL NOT lose this war!
Cha’ it would. And here it is – all packed into one. I’ll debate any aspect of this post with anyone, but the purpose of the post is to as objectively as possible explain what’s in the bill. However, I can’t guarantee objectivity because I do have an agenda, and also, I admittedly am only going to include the negative things. … Not that I can think of anything positive about this bill, though. Really. It sucks hardcore. If you’ve been paying attention to the debate, then you should probably know a lot of this.
Note: I'm not an economist, so I can't begin to explain to you how the numbers are calculated. I do know, however, that they can be found in multiple sources, and that has to do for me.
My sources for this information are all internet based:
Various News Articles – Yahoo, AP, Reuters, NYT, Fox, Washington Post. Maybe more.
The Bill, - Really Long PDF File That Kills Your Compy!
Newsmax - Obamacare Grants IRS Perilous New Powers, GOP Says
KeithHennessey.com - Understanding the new health reconciliation bill
The New England Journal of Medicine - The Medicus Firm Survey
Hannity Forum Posters - A list of particulars: What’s wrong with the HC bill
Huffington Post – Fact Sheet: The Truth About the Health Care Bill
Not everything by a long shot, but a goodly number of them.
Yeah. I’m citing Huffpo as a legitimate source. Seriously. I figured it would gain some credibility with those of you left of center. I already knew 90% of the stuff in the article, but it is a very nice bullet point rundown. By a staunch libbie.
THE NATIONAL COSTS
There are a fair few budgetary tricks in this bill that I only understand so long as I’m reading about them. However, the biggest two are:
1) We will pay taxes for 10 years in order to receive 6 years of benefits. This is how the bill was scored “deficit neutral.” Do you think we’re going to give up the benefits every 6 years for a 4 year recess in order to continue that trend?
2) The bill that was passed DOES NOT include the $300ish Billion “Doctor Fix” which prevents the 20% cut in Medicare payments to doctors. Interesting foreshadow for the future: the reason the Fix is needed is because of a law that was passed earlier with the intention of controlling costs. That is, this was a promise from an earlier Congress to control the costs of the program – the later, now current Congress, under pressure, is considering breaking that promise.
THE IRS – NEW & IMPROVED ON STEROIDS
Yeah… Not a very objective subtitle. But! Check out their shiny new powers!
16,500 new IRS agents will be hired in order to enforce the new health care bill. The IRS will, along with being responsible for collecting your taxes, be the enforcer of a social entitlement program. It will be the job of the IRS to ensure that you have the required insurance coverage mandated by the federal government.
If you don’t have the insurance, or the proper level of insurance, then tough noodles. Community Chest: Pay Uncle Sam $2,250 or 2.5% of your yearly income – whichever is greater.
Oh, and here’s the best part about the tax: almost half of the individual mandate taxes (see: punitive penalty) will come from families below the 300% poverty level. That’s a family of 4 making $66,000 or so.
THE COST IN $$$ TO YOU
...I was gonna write this out, but the Huffpo article did it so succinctly. I'm just gonna quote.
Myth 3: The bill will significantly bring down insurance premiums for most Americans.
Fact: The bill will not bring down premiums significantly, and certainly not the $2,500/year that President Obama promised during his campaign.
Annual premiums in 2016: status quo / with bill:
Small group market, single: $7,800 / $7,800
Small group market, family: $19,3oo / $19,200
Large Group market, single: $7,400 / $7,300
Large group market, family: $21,100 / $21,300
Individual market, single: $5,500 / $5,800
Individual market, family: $13,100 / $15,200
(The cost of premiums in the individual market goes up somewhat due to subsidies and mandates of better coverage. The CBO assumes that cost of individual policies goes down 7-10%, and that people will buy more generous policies.)
Myth 4: The bill will make health care affordable for middle class Americans.
Fact: The bill will impose a financial hardship on middle class Americans who will be forced to buy a product that they can't afford to use.
A family of four making $66,370 will be forced to pay $5,243 per year for insurance. After basic necessities, this leaves them with $8,307 in discretionary income -- out of which they would have to cover clothing, credit card and other debt, child care and education costs, in addition to $5,882 in annual out-of-pocket medical expenses for which families will be responsible.
Myth 5: This plan is similar to the Massachusetts plan, which makes health care affordable.
Fact: Many Massachusetts residents forgo health care because they can't afford it. A 2009 study by the state of Massachusetts found that:
- 21% of residents forgo medical treatment because they can't afford it, including 12% of children
- 18% have health insurance but can't afford to use it
Myth 6: This bill provides health care to 31 million people who are currently uninsured.
Fact: This bill will mandate that millions of people who are currently uninsured purchase insurance from private companies, or the IRS will collect up to 2% of their annual income in penalties. Some will be assisted with government subsidies.
Myth 7: You can keep the insurance you have if you like it.
Fact: The excise tax will result in employers switching to plans with higher co-pays and fewer covered services.
Older, less healthy employees with employer-based health care will be forced to pay much more in out-of-pocket expenses than they do now.
And actually, there's more to Myth #7. The thing is that there are many people who have insurance right now whose coverage will not meet the minimum standards. This means, generally speaking, they're going to have to get new coverage and pay more for it.
THE COST IN $$$ TO EMPLOYERS
Phew. The employers in this? They get seriously screwed - particularly if they're a Mom & Pop shop. Now I'd heard this many times, from pundits, congress critters, analysts, and reporters, but it wasn't until a poster at a forum I hang out at explained it that I was able to understand it.
This is regarding the 8% penalty that employers have to pay for individuals who choose not to enroll in the company's insurance benefits or are part time employees. What 8% penalty, you ask? Well, the bill calls it a contribution...
22 (3) MINIMUM EMPLOYER CONTRIBUTION FOR
23 EMPLOYEES OTHER THAN FULL-TIME EMPLOY24
EES.—In the case of coverage for an employee who
25 is not a full-time employee, the amount of the min-
1 imum employer contribution under this subsection
2 shall be a proportion (as determined in accordance
3 with rules of the Health Choices Commissioner, the
4 Secretary of Labor, the Secretary of Health and
5 Human Services, and the Secretary of the Treasury,
6 as applicable) of the minimum employer contribution
7 under this subsection with respect to a full-time em8
ployee that reflects the proportion of—
[snip]
14 SEC. 313. EMPLOYER CONTRIBUTIONS IN LIEU OF COV15
ERAGE.
16 (a) IN GENERAL.—A contribution is made in accord17
ance with this section with respect to an employee if such
18 contribution is equal to an amount equal to 8 percent of
19 the average wages paid by the employer during the period
20 of enrollment (determined by taking into account all em21
ployees of the employer and in such manner as the Com22
missioner provides, including rules providing for the ap23
propriate aggregation of related employers). Any such con24
tribution—
1 (1) shall be paid to the Health Choices Com2
missioner for deposit into the Health Insurance Ex3
change Trust Fund, and
4 (2) shall not be applied against the premium of
5 the employee under the Exchange-participating
6 health benefits plan in which the employee is en7
rolled.
Read it carefully. It is saying what you think it's saying. I didn't believe it, either.
Here's an EXAMPLE of a Mom & Pop Shop as opposed to a Walmart.
Granted, his numbers are rosy and simplistic, but the calculation is what's important to pay attention to. Yes, he's also just some random dude on the internet, except that he's been there for a while and so have I: he's acknowledged by both sides to be an accurate, reliable, numbers crunching kind of guy. Though he does have his partisan moments as we all do. ;)
Of course this doesn't include the 40% excise tax on so-called Cadillac plans not obtained through union contracts. Let alone the costs of employers now being required to cough all this money up and the effect it will have on employment in this Great Recession.
EFFECT ON DOCTORS
For the sake of time and length, I'm only going to refer to one poll and a situation in Washington state.
Published in the New England Journal of Medicine, a survey by the Medicus Firm found that of about 1,200 physician respondents, 30% of them would try to retire early or would retire early. Now granted, this is a poll, and it's all just talk until they actually do something. I doubt a full third of our doctors would leave the field - or at least not immediately. The important question to ask is why 1/3 of the doctors responded that way. When you shove so many millions of people into the system suddenly, what happens to that system without a proportional amount of doctors entering at the same time? Can quality and access remain the same, unchanged? Will the price of things remain unchanged?
In Washington state, Wallgreens has announced that after, I believe it's April 16, they will not take anymore new Medicaid patients. It represents too much of a loss for them to continue accepting new people. Several doctors around the country have echoed the same reality.
THE STUPAK DEAL
Funny thing about executive orders: they cannot trump law. The health care bill that Obama signed yesterday is LAW. Congress is the legislative branch of the government while the President is the executive. The legislative branch, and the legislative branch alone is charged with creating the laws.
So. If the President's executive order is, by Congressional fiat or whatever - maybe imagination; I don't know - If his executive order is deemed to trump true law, then why do we need Congress?
We'd have a dictator who could legislate with impunity.
How, exactly, did the President convince Stupak that he could do such a thing?
LIBERTIES LOST
I suppose I could break this bill down a million different ways - and I didn't even touch the education portion of it. I didn't even touch half of it. - I think the two most important individual liberties lost are those of choice and property.
Only big government liberals would march into your home, tell you they know best, and demand you purchase a product "for your health" with the legalized threat that they will confiscate thousands of your hard earned dollars/send you to jail if you don't. Only big government, socialist, redistribute-the-wealth liberals would call that liberty.
Nancy Pelosi had the unmitigated gall to mention the Founding Fathers in this. She couldn't even quote the Declaration of Independence! Gee, Madame Speaker. When was the last time you touched anything written by our founders, let alone READ anything they wrote?! Somehow I have a hard time believing Madison, Jefferson, Washington, Adams, Franklin, or Paine would celebrate imposing upon the American people punitive taxation for not purchasing a particular prized product.
Somehow, I think they would be mightily offended by the arrogance of the democratic party to partisan-ly equate itself with GOD to create rights! That is HIS authority, and HIS only!
Equivalent to the Civil Rights Movement of the 60's?! Those people refused to move to the back of the bus! They refused to leave the counter! They marched! They relied on GOD and each other, not government! They were fighting AGAINST the government, which was keeping them oppressed for majority opinion! They were beaten and hosed and KILLED in that movement! You're going to compare the most corrupt, leftist piece of legislation that has ever been partisan-ly passed in our country's history to the men and women of color who stood up in defiance to the majority and THE GOVERNMENT? How DARE you?! Is their fight and sacrifice so trivialized that you would dance on their tombstones?
It is sickening and disgusting that this administration has spit in the face of the American people. "Sit down and shut the #($)# up! We're doing whatever the ^#$&! we feel like, and there ain't nothin' you can do about it!"
Well dems, there is something we can do about it. There's a magical month known as November, and it's coming in 7 1/2 short months. We are coming to the polls in droves, and we are going to kick your arrogant butts to curb. "GET OUT."
Congress' approval rating on Monday was 11%. ELEVEN PERCENT! And they want to shove that steaming crap in our face and tell us, "It was for you!" Bogus! It was for government! The almighty government that we should, by their estimation, bow down and efface ourselves before.
Screw. That.
Unless Obama really is a dictator as I previously explained, we still have the RIGHT to VOTE. And vote we shall! If we allow liberty to die on our watch to the thunderous, arrogant applause one party, how will we ever face the next generations? How will America be the home of the FREE and the BRAVE? Where will people go when America no longer has the prized health care system of the world? - And don't you dare tell me that it's not. If it wasn't, people wouldn't come from across the globe to get treatment and specialized procedures! It wouldn't happen!
The question before us is thus: Are we Americans or are we Europeans?
Close allies as we are, there were very specific reasons America revolted against the British. We are still the most free and prosperous country in the world, and we believe that government has a LIMITED role.
So the President might want me and those like me to sit down and shut up, but I'm not going to. I've been missing on LJ because I'm looking for new ways to ACT. The Tea Parties are great for expression, but the government doesn't give a flip what the people think.
I am going to be involved, and I encourage you to be involved with me as much as you can. This is a war for the heart and soul of what liberty is in the United States of America! We cannot lose this war! We WILL NOT lose this war!
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2010-03-24 11:38 pm (UTC)*crashes into your conservative journal and huggles you*
I've been waiting for you to post about this! I shall read in depth after dinner. :)
no subject
Date: 2010-03-25 04:26 am (UTC)You'll have to tell me if you've seen/heard/read anything different from what I have here.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-25 04:39 am (UTC)I shall! Though, I've heard basically the same thing. *long suffering sigh*
Ok, now onto in depth talk. :)
It is sickening and disgusting that this administration has spit in the face of the American people. "Sit down and shut the #($)# up! We're doing whatever the ^#$&! we feel like, and there ain't nothin' you can do about it!"
Well dems, there is something we can do about it. There's a magical month known as November, and it's coming in 7 1/2 short months. We are coming to the polls in droves, and we are going to kick your arrogant butts to curb. "GET OUT."
This made me jump up and down and point at my screen while going "YES! EXACTLY!", I have no idea how they can, in good conscious, give us something that so many of the American public doesn't want! Yes, I do agree that everyone should be able to have health care and it should be cheaper but not the way they're doing it. To be honest, there's a small part of me that is a little scared...what the heck ever happened to balance of power?! You had some dems that were against it and yet they still managed to pass it!
My dad, who to be fair is pretty conservative...turned on Rush today...that's when you know it's bad, the last time he activated listened to Rush was in 2000 during the Gore/Bush election. Not that he really has anything against Rush but...
And he listened to Beck too. ;) My dad was like "Yeah, Glenn was talking about socialism...he's really not that far from the truth".
I was 17 last year for the 2008 elections so I couldn't vote (missed it by 7 months! Gr.) but all I have to say this thank heavens I didn't vote for him. :p
Re: I'm still raging sorry. Ignore all the CAPS! I can't help myself!
Date: 2010-03-25 02:12 pm (UTC)I just wish AMERICA could make up its mind and stop being such senseless/mindless sheep. I mean we were founded on Christian principles and virtues yet we don't follow anything our founding fathers left for us. No wonder America is on the wrong track.
You can blame the President, Secretary of Defense, Vice President and whoever else you want but this is America's fault first and foremost. We elected all of these officials into office so we knew what we were getting into. Sooner or later, America is going to off itself and then we'll see just how hard and cruel this world really is!